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Part 5 of 5 - Underneath every simple, obvious story about ‘human error,’ there is a deeper, more co

Part 5 of 5 - Underneath every simple, obvious story about ‘human error,’ there is a deeper, more complex story - a story about the system in which people work. Will these formerly unrevealed public records change the account of what occurred on June 30, 2013?

Views expressed to "the public at largeand "of public concern"


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Lord, we come to you today with the challenges in life- hear our prayer. Lord, know you are in us and with us. Lord, 2019 is almost over - please hear our prayers -

We know you are greater than anything and anyone I ever known. We ask that you surround us with your "hedge of protection" - stay near us. Help us be alert and secure in the knowledge that you are with us. You have given me fullness of life. Save us from those who have (un)intentional harm for us. Protect us from our own selves. Teach us to wear the armor of God and the belt of truth and breastplate of righteousness ... May Your Will be done. In Jesus name, Amen.

I did fix the front page of this blog and moved all the photos to its own link -

Many ask how come I never post photos of my family online. Why am I not on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter?


I avoid "social media". I am very much "old school". Sonny and I had a private link with fire photos in 2013. I occasionally comment (ramble?) on InvestigativeMEDIA. I use to post my hikes on my Zazzle ( www.zazzle.com/congress_arizona* ) or was jotting my hikes on Hike AZ. I do not live and breathe technology like others. Otherwise, I am an old school "in person" gal. - Not the best on phone or email communications either - I use my Tracfone when someone adds minutes to (480 559-1971) - I rarely add minutes to it. Who was the last person to add minutes on there? I think maybe it was John Norman MacLean or Holly Neill if that tells you "how much" I use it. You are more than welcome to email me and I can share there on any inquiries or come have dinner with us all and join the family and friend "fun" ... but never expect me to do that here on the internet. Not my style. Just ask me "Joy, you tired or sick?" - ask that before making arrangements because I am not any fun to be around when those days happen- indeed. (soft giggles)

this was me chillin' in New Mexico this Spring 2019 during my WUI S-215 training texting new FF pal, Kayiden A. - I love the wood burning stove just my lungs cannot take it much ... I want to share Kayiden's path yet not sure Kayiden is ready - maybe some day...added this pic to remind Kayiden of "that" day and to share how Kayiden first came up to me all geared up in Eric Marsh Foundation apparel with a "pumped up" attitude to fight fire as we were Students at the Arizona Wildfire and Incident Management Academy this Spring 2019:

Upon request, here is my Family Tree:

“We can love completely what we cannot completely understand.”

Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through it and Other Stories

Paternal: I do not have a recent photo of my father:

(deceased; 12 21 2015)

(My father reminds me of IM's Participant; RTS- born one day a part) probably just the tall with mustache and "authoritarian" attitude part, eh ... here is RTS:

- My heart - Papa:

my grandpa (Papa): "In Loving Memory"; 1995.

My grandmother (Mama) (91) (Hospice):

My Dad's Sister and Brother and their Families:

Uncle Bob ("In Loving Memory") (old photo):

(Uncle Bob, cousin Tammy, and my Dad)

My dad's brother's ex wife and their daughter my cousin Tammy's mom (below):

then Cousin Tammy:

"In Loving Memory" -my cousin's kids:

Aunt Ruthie (my dad's sister) (no photo) ("In Loving Memory") - My Uncle Bob and his new wife and my cousins (not seen them since my father died 2015):

Cousin Scotty (spoke on cell Spring 2019):

Cousin Robbie (not seen him since my father died 2015):

Cousin Elaine and one of her kids (no photo of her husband) (not seen her since my father died 2015):

Some misc. pics of my cousins and us as kids:

That's right cousins - "Thumbs Up"

Maternal: My Mother and Her Siblings (My Aunt and Uncles)

(Uncle Bill - "In Loving Memory", My Mom, "Pastor" Uncle Bob

(he looks like one of my doctors),

Aunt Eydie - "In Loving Memory") My Mother's Hubby - (Step Dad) and his Kids/Family:

My Brothers and their Family. Brother Paul and his lovely wife (my sis-in-law):

Thank You Sis-In-Law (Sis) - Since February 2018 she has helped me with my hair messes. I am a natural born "outdoor" gal who never makes the proper efforts for hair and make-up and nails as I should- Thank You. You are the best!

"In Loving Memory" - (Very Much Missed By Me) -

Our Sweet Angel- Sis's Mother:

My brother and Sis's Children and Grandchildren:

Brother Bill and his kids (his wife was working- no photo):

My Grandma (deceased):

In Loving Memory - My Grandpa and Nettie (My Heart):

I miss you soooo much Grandpa and Nettie

Here is my East Coast Family- Mom's Side - Miss you all:

Hugs Aunt Anna

Uncle Charlie and Aunt Blanchie - "In Loving Memory" - I sure miss you two bunches. I love you both so very much. You two are forever golden.

Oh and it "breaks me to joyful tears"

how very proud I am of my cousin Lynn's girls-

You girls are top notch.

We miss you cousin Lynn:

How many of us have to get ill or die due to "chemicals" from these made for profit companies?

And we just allow it to happen? and not voice our views? Wrong!

The Fire Industry needs to take a "serious look" at the Fire Origins, The Fire Progressions (man made and/or weather, etc.), The Burn Scars, The Air Attack Drops may it be Fire or Slurry Drop, how many vehicles versus hand crews and Air attack (local vs federal resources) used, Layer on those maps a transparent look of "where" the slurry drops were made and really examine the community of who is ill or dead since that fire went through- Really look at the entities and verify what is placed out and "focus" to what is not put out...besides fires nowadays. They in the highest direction and guidance of the Fire Industry have to know too many are watching their actions and moments like this Fire Season 2019 had some very inappropriate actions and it has not gone unnoticed-

Time to really sit down and talk and make some changes.

I would say the industry does not realize there were so many Fire Weather tech savvy nerds out there in the World. I strongly feel it's really disingenuous for anyone in the Industry or tied to it (contracted) or family members who exploit for profit and or agendas this National Tragedy we all have been affected by ... it has been difficult to work through this all ... we do have a responsibility and duty to make this "right" and it does not belong to just one author who arrogantly claims the "credible duty" belongs to him as people reported to me - also we should not by patting one on the back with cush type positions or you help me - I help you mentalities. I am not going to change my ways just because certain ones in the Fire Industry are doing wrong ...it is a Global problem. Today is "your" day to have the courage to "Speak Up"

Oh and cousin Taylor- everyone so far tells me you are the spitting image of me at that age- that's good - Be YOU!

-Make "as many" detours in life that God places on your heart.-

That's right, Taylor - Thumbs Up!

Life is Good!

Here is a pic of me around your age

with bed head waking up late morning always, Taylor:

I think I had thicker hair though:

the locals gave me the nickname - "Desert Walker"

Again, and always ...you are with us Lynn in all we do-

We Love and Miss You!

Cousin Stephen and his wife and son:

My Aunt Eydie's First husband Uncle Elmer (Dad to Stephen and Lynn):

and her second husband:

Uncle Bill's wife Fran is in the center of this photo (floral shirt) and Uncle Bob's wife Ann to Fran's right:

"I love you Mom":

"Hugs"

I love my brothers - They have always been the best... always!

even when my mom dressed me in God awful dresses and pigtails:

Thank you to my brothers and family for accepting me as the "outdoor" kid...

I never will change no matter how academics I become.

By Marriage:

My hubby's Family - and became mine decades ago and I love them all so much-

They all have been so good to me.

My hubby:

My hubby's Brother (left) :

My hubby's other brother and his family:

My hubby's youngest Brother and his Family:

My hubby's Sister - In Loving Memory - Lisa and her kids - our nephews:

Nick with his mom that his Dad married

Nick's nephew

Nephew Mike and his wife

The above photo reminds me of my hubby when he was young

My In-Laws:

My hubby's cousin Steve and his boy:

My hubby's cousin and her husband:

In my lifetime this lady entered my life a decade ago as my mom number 2 I call them "Ma" and "Pa":

and Ma and Pa's Best Doggie with me (lots of love and hugs):

I sure miss you three on my trail times.

- In Loving Memory - To Our First Pet "Yo-Yo"

Fine Food and Fine Company has always been my make-up to living life:

Yes, I was not always known as just the "housewife hiker". I was the "bràs style" gal back in the day yet to understand that you would have to know "vintage" Portugese and Italian cooking...well known for the shredding and fine chopping and sweating and carmelizing and teaching so many in life "how to cook" with much love and attention to less is best...and it really boils down to fine food and fine company for me.

Go to El Cid's back in the day to get a feel for the good side to living:

 

One of the top reasons I get told from the Firefighters that were there those last 18 minutes is...

"Joy, I have a family..."

Look up!

Scroll Up!

So do I.

I have a family who watch me leave home to train into an Industry I never imagined for my life; that's God. Yet it really needs it to be you all who were telling me behind the scenes the last 18 minutes - not me here doing it for you. Don't you agree?

Also all those that listened to John Norman MacLean's presentations where he never gave me photo credit on my images on his presentation images that were my photos and as well the others talking on me calling me the "Crazy Congress" - does the people I have as family or the people around me qualify that type of talk? Really?

Next time you hear stuff on me just come to me direct is all I ask ...

Yet for me to pursue being a Fire and Law Investigator and Forensic Fire Weather Expert fits me. All my life I watched Detective shows (Rocky King; Detective, Matlock, Columbo, 48' Sam Spade Private Detective, Stand By for Crime, Man against Crime, Yours Truly Johnny Dollar, Jeff Regan, Miss Marple, Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, Perry Mason, Hawaiian Eye, Kojak, Baretta, Rockford Files, even at times as corney as it was Charlies Angels and Miami Vice, Simon and Simon and Chips and Cagney and Lacey and Magnum PI and Moonlighting and TJ Hooker, Barney Miller, Hart to Hart, Honey West, Hill Street Blues, even the kookie 77 Sunset Strip, True Detective, Shotgun Slade, Killing Fields, The First 48, Hunter, Murder She Wrote, In the Heat of the Night, Quincy, and I always had this way about me that I can see things others are just unable to do. I rather be a "housewife hiker" yet am I ready to stop making chocolate chips cookies?

Remember it takes only ONE person to BELIEVE

and I am that ONE person that firmly and strongly feels by sharing to you who I am

that maybe now you "get" WHY it is so important for you folks

who where there the last 18 minutes before the men died to speak up-

Have courage that you can be that one to rock the much needed boat.

You get to carry that torch where 19 men no longer can here on Earth.

I want you, who were there the last 18 minutes of the Yarnell Hill Fire in certain spur roads, to know this tv show (email below) may be the proper platform for you to reach versus the show reaching me because the true heroes are the ones who end up coming forward with the missing information not yet public:

We who were out there on the Weavers,

it is time we talk about the pain and heart aches.

Let us do it NOW

20 19 ... 2019

We need your voice with honesty and the truth and the compassion

against injustice ... against the lies ... against the greed.

There are few of us who take the true time and energy to keep challenging the Fire Industry on "Lives Matter" , "We believe Safety Does Matter " and "Human Factors".

Does it seem too daunting for some of you? Are you at the right organization? Or does your organization need some necessary changes?

If you wake up and think "I know what Joy is writing is right" - there is just this thing - "I have a family and I have to have health insurance, I have a solid history of Certifications and its a pain in the butt to get my task book completed.....I am second or third generation in the Fire Industry ... I only know fire and I love it and I do not want to change careers, sorry Joy - you cannot bring the men back from sharing ... I would talk but my dad said not to" or I hear ... since the fire the Industry advanced me quickly and they are taking good care of me so I do not want to hurt my friends in the Industry" or the many "other" reasoning I have been shared ... "I retire in a year or 15 ...maybe then"-

(as I sigh)

It is very simple.

I believe there are "many more" who need to "Speak Up" about the last 18 minutes before the men died...That is how I wake up each day. Staying the course. Even when I have days I "feel" like throwing in the towel - those young faces are solid in my head and I stay with it.

I am sharing my family in its entirety from paternal to maternal to my married family even some extended members I known my entire life because I think John Norman MacLean "misjudged" me based on one hike and someone out there giving him misinformation.

I do believe someone(s) who are tied to the GMHS has been a strong influence in John Norman MacLean's journey. I do believe I will be looking for the "definite" book Gary L Olson stated May 20, 2015 he is writing as well and "hope" for WTKTT's book to happen.

I had a counselor friend "show concern" because I do not do "social media" and she said do not show the public who I am and the more you place out the more "bad" can come from it was her view so I did not add her photo yet she has been in our lives since 2013 and was Sonny's counselor who became my friend. When she said all that I did years ago when I was doing my Zazzle page as a local hobby hiking page of what I saw on my trails - my site began to be the hunters dream to see where geographically I was taking the Wildlife shots. Shoot, when you see the start of this page some elk hunter may even fake wanting to be "friends" with me because I do have a "super - natural" gift with the wildlife. The wildlife loves me. See:

I had to state to my counselor friend how much worse can it get then when Fire Author John Norman MacLean hikes with me once (repeat - ONE TIME) but he brings to my hiking path Dr. Ted Putnam, Charlie "Moses" Moseley, Johnny Kirkley, Stephen Pyne, Wayne and Holly Neill and through Holly, she brings to my hiking path Alan Sinclair, Fred and Deanna Thompson (Fire20+ on IM), Jim Roth and his lovely lady. Even I got his friends to call me and apologize for his Smokejumper Conference Presentation actions in regards to the Yarnell Hill Fire Eyewitness Hikers including Holly Neill who also called me to apologize for MacLean's statements in person at the Yarnell Diner.

I put all that effort out for John Norman MacLean helping him in any way never asking for anything but give me photo credit which he has not, but in return that is what I got at that Smokejumper Conference - His Presentation? Why is it John Norman MacLean keeps speaking and being paid lots of funds to simply distract with his distasteful humor on the Yarnell Hill Fire Eyewitnesses and again distracts because his "insert on us" had nothing to do with "why" 19 men died - and if he wants to re-focus to the causal factors then he truly misses the point; it was 18 minutes before we need to discuss - not Saturday. Sometimes when people do their research they get too involved with the people who faced the losses to give it a pure "look at".

When I never saw the video I just figured he was "humoring" but after I saw the video I found the behavior poor.

How do we include mainstream media and "In Loving Memory" Dave Larsen and Pete Masiel who was also denied access get "Powerful" Politicians to get truly involved versus putting more emphasis on Greed and Advancement- We need you in power to help us make this right. Any of you ready to trail blaze along with me?

 

In honoring my true Smokejumper friend ... Charley "Moses" Moseley ... and "much thanks" to his family this Summer 2019 for your assistance and guidance ... I really appreciate all you did.

Please spend the time to read through this June 23, 2013, Facebook thread with author John MacLean and others discussing fire behavior and human factors and such ... I have heard many other WFs and FFs engaged in wildland firefighting state to me that they believe that MacLean considers himself to be the "self-proclaimed, sole" or "ultimate authority" author on the YH Fire. He is also considered by the same professionals that way because when they provided him with the "facts and documents" on the YH Fire and other fatality wildfires, they feel that he never fixed or amended those areas needing corrections in books that he has written and had published. Another complaint these same professionals had was they believed that he always wants to place the blame on management instead of on those that actually and factually make the bad decisions that got them killed.

And I also want to know how and why his "MacLean Research Team" has had special privileges accessing the YH Fire Deployment /Fatality Site areas when it was restricted to everyone but SAIT and ADOSH investigators. So then, what is what is the so-called "MacLean Research Team?" Because they certainly are NOT certified investigators!

 

Some other statements that I have heard over time related to the June 30, 2013, YH Fire and the GMHS -

"Look, Joy, I know there are things you can’t tell me. But I also know that there’s a story here. And I think it’s an important story so just come out and tell it."

The only concern is the people asking do not know the amount of time I have put into this and "every time" I give people information - it vanishes or scares off the ones who have the data or it gets shifted -

This is and has been an uneasy path...I have gone direct to the people who were on the fire to have them get lawyered up even stating they would lie that they were not even there ... ??? ... This is a tough seat God placed many of us in ... especially in our small towns ... We need the Fire Industry to work together because we, as firefighters, are still considered to be PUBLIC SERVANTS by many, so the public also deserves to know what happened on June 30, 2013.

We need to focus both on the individual firefighter as well as a whole the system of the Fire Industry. Policies matter. And, of course, the "10 and 18" do matter.

I will always be boggled by how some in the Industry that say: "The crucial information you’re after - they’re very sensitive records." And I reply "with all due respect - that’s not the question here. The records are public ... or are they?" ...

I think any journalist that covered the Yarnell Hill Fire, DOES have an editorial responsibility in seeking out and publishing these public records of this nature ... versus how it was glazed over elsewhere ... I have had so many homeowners state, including recently deceased Yarnell resident Pete The Miner's account. And how many news media were in the crucial areas? So, I am deeply disappointed when I tried to pull public records from them and they played me the "we are a private sector" Fire Dept. or "we had a fire in the records storage area" or "we moved the records and they seem to have gotten misplaced."

Any Yarnell Hill Fire Investigator or Media who has photos like this ETHICALLY OWES IT TO THE PUBLIC and PROFESSIONALLY AND ETHICALLY OWES IT TO THE WFs and FFs that engage in wildland firefighting to give us the time-stamps so we can make our own assessment of those final "52 minutes from Blow-up to Burnover on June 30, 2013":

 

I also believe what WTKTT stated ( NOVEMBER 10, 2014 AT 11:35 AM ) and this should be at the forefront: "Aaron Hulburd was a true ‘videophile’" ... and he should be re-interviewed about the exact areas and times that my blog theme covers.

John MacLean and his team might not like InvestigativeMEDIA as shared to me this Summer by John, yet this video done by WTKTT, is from IM and is important to be at the forefront:

 

This Summer, a Yarnell Resident presented this to me, as years ago she made it. She said she had me as the "desert walker" in mind when painting it:

I highly recommend their air bnb: (https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/15611560?source_impression_id=p3_1564775764_Z5LQd92LG6xFQn97 )

 

I have a very good mentor - a true delight. I very much appreciate our times.

And for any and all of you current or retired Wildland Firefighters believe in sharing and mentoring, here is a good start: