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Writer's pictureJOY A COLLURA
Sep 30

The Importance of "Speaking Up" from Prior Incident Commander- Insights from Alan Sinclair

put settings to publish 9:30:24 because we want to keep fjs links to the forefront...but this post was made 11-3-24.

11-5-24 5:55am

ADDITONAL DISCLAIMER:

I am speaking on behalf of

JOY A COLLURA

(I refuse to speak for others, I refuse to speak for our skies, I refuse to speak for our watersheds/waterways, I refuse to speak for the flora, I refuse to speak for the saguaros, I refuse to speak for the wildlife, I refuse to speak for the homeowners whose bodies fell into mine and wept so broken and so deep who know all too well what "Mental Health" is ...when fire folks spoke to them June 30, 2013, and said we are doing structure protection and then watch all that they did- pure chaos and negligence- on his property that his family had for generations which would assist to maintain one's Faith or bring the unbeliever(s) to know Him by walking their land...and I was right there [because Todd Abel failed to bring the no trespassing signs so we paid for signs and delivered them] when the news was delivered that the insurance company was not going to assist as he prayed for and then watch him die within that year of a broken heart, we spent countless hours looking for Mark Danielson to hear his testimony of the Shrine area but we got it from another caretaker near him, to hear there was more missing and more injuries but never told to the Public at Large sickened me and some is captured forever in the 911 and radio transmissions tedious listening of all that was boring , we were doing hard ass labor July 2013 through that Winter for the community helping people rebuild and were many folks listening sound board (all while I was chronically unwell) all the while walking with Media and Authors and such so they could have my eyewitness account in person since the SAIT SAIR investigation folks for this fire did not make that time to walk the walk with us, then to be twisted by fire author John Norman MacLean at some Smokejumper Conference, to hear from a prior CIA agent/Smokejumper give me the low down to watch out for HOLLY HENDERSON SNYDER NEILL and JOHN NORMAN MACLEAN because they are smearing my name...our names... behind the scenes versus just sticking to the facts on what we saw, then to hear how and why some moved away and where they lived when the fire went through breaks my heart knowing the fire progression from the sky data and others testimonies, to go to all the hospital visits and funerals we did and how many we lost to our communities, to hear what GMHS family members were saying to certain community folks about us was also sickening even more so when I own what I do now- that would be very wrong, so wrong I had to show back channel some the evidence so they knew too what I own and they wanted to blast it out loud and I said no, let God do what He has to in His way and timing, but some know and the also saw the evidence on YCSO vs DONNA GORDON...then to watch and hear men dressed in kelts stand in the Shrine area June 30, 2014, state as I was peeing in a bush, my ears had to hear what happened in this area we take to the grave, then to hear Grotto owner say his testimony which is next to the Shrine and the topic of fuzees and showed me images and that is actually how Alan got on the June 30 2014 hike with us--I was showing him the location the photos were taken. To have Holly say I can trust her (you give me all you got Joy and I will do the same---she failed me and possibly Dr Ted Putnam there), and she would keep what I say to herself and learn it was leaked based on someone who overheard her sharing about me, in 2014- began my record gathering based on if Elizabeth Nowicki who in the records John Norman MacLean explains to Darrell Willis that Elizabeth wanted to help in doing research for him in prior years so if she can get records and she said she was there for me and Sonny but my gut never settled that she was fully there just for us and Donut even though she said all we said would remain with her---she kept wanting to project her views in a manner my brain could not process at that time and I said no more but I often feel she holds value in all this for her efforts as well as many InvestigativeMEDIA participants, the bogus court room setting January 2015 should be omitted from the system based on it was "bogus" and learning what I own now---I doubt that could ever be again because most them know I know and own what I do---RiP Pete Masiel is what I will say there...RiP Dewey Rebbe and Pie...RiP Seets, the guys who were pushed out of their careers especially up in Prescott (thank you for your testimony that you thought would die with you all) and the guy who went hiking and so on, to then have Holly meet with me at the Yarnell Diner and show me text threads between her and another women and allowed me to even "feel" that person is fine with me but I would not engage because in 2015 I was not allowed to engage on topic due to a court ruling so I did not know what she was doing there- set up?, as this is all going on, my hiking pal is in and out handling major health issues and I am right at his side when they did the hernia surgery and heart and never left the bedside at the hospital 2014-2017, then Holly reaches me Fall 2017 to let me know to look into Fred J Schoeffler and I was like why--- just some fella that is on InvestigativeMEDIA that time to time I clash with when him and Gary O. would snicker comments my way--- which helped me become numb to what I consider to be Spiritual Warfare--- then Fred reaches me Late Fall/ Winter 2017 that a GMHS loved one is married and I was like so who cares...I can share about who I want when I want...shit, I feel bad at times for Burk Minor because all he was doing was a tour guide thing like he has done how many times--- I was being authentically ME and do you all know how peaceful/calming just being silent in a room with Burk is...man, it was much needed to have that and we both did what we set from the original call to do and I bet he don't like being a post on the blog but that man is a hero for the boots on the ground and humble as f^^^. His mother reminded me of my grandma, and I knew looking in her eyes that she is a mix of tough but can possibly be peer pressured...you cannot peer pressure me...I also knew looking her in the eyes she has faced so much external stuff...I saw a woman who grew up around Faith and if you came to my home, I do have a corner where I pray all through the day just for her and for healings to happen for her for all areas for her life. She may have been around the issues, but I saw a person who deserved to have someone make that time for her. I still do and will always because it is important to have God guide her in some areas especially when I was in ___ living room and heard what I heard...I was like ??be me and speak up??? or think about the newness of ____knowing them...I stayed quiet, but I heard. I went into lay low mode since. I saw one elder local who knew my pops every weekend (May 2024 RiP) and the ladies twice a month and one I worked out with- it is overwhelming to type all this out, and I know I am missing out on important topics, but I am tired of writing...maybe I can maybe an audio recording soon... but my point is the topic MENTAL HEALTH and my take on the topic---


Disclaimer: I am not a professional doctor

and just a housewife with a little common sense...

okay, a lot of common sense...

My key points:

  • mental health requires time-to-time discussions on personality disorders and psychiatric challenges that can happen from life or even certain meds as side effects, and I prefer to focus to God and His plan for me and stay away from the worldly others' projections and ill ways and live in the moment for Him...

  • I believe it begins with asking God to internally work on self to do what He needs for us to do---even if it means embarking on areas you never thought for your life.




 

I have seen one of the oddest paths being the eyewitness to YARNELL HILL FIRE 2013 and 2016.


 

 

I did not look for you

Alan Sinclair-


someone externally

mentioned your Facebook

on invasive grasses


and I just do not do social media...

thought they said YouTube

so that is how I searched

ALAN SINCLAIR on YouTube

this week...


I get alerts and I thought it was from that,

but I went back and looked...been fighting this fever and been dealing with that area...


All 18 years or older,

Remember

to

and

understand

this is my online space

and

my humble opinions...


if you do not like it

then avoid reading it

or refrain from coming here.


background noise while you read:

little Guns n Roses music-

fitting

because it is November

and it's raining in Arizona ;)


Aug 25, 1992: Metallica / Faith No More / Guns N’ Roses at Phoenix International Raceway Avondale, Arizona, United States | Concert Archives - still have the original stubs...I went with a West Point Academy guy--who I had worked with...it is the only concert I ever went to---almost went to one of George Strait's- his good friend one time invited me, but the speakers hurt my ears...


from one of my surveillance cameras: "November Rain"

post continued from bottom of this post: Tres Fire -Yavapai County, AZ - 34.167393, -113.013701

Source: Graded Podcast -

transcripts to this video at the end of the post.

Higher Authorities/Power Elites

[some we have interacted with]

who have been watching

the YHF13 &

its aftermath

and those who feel the odd need to

watch me -

[ hurt me - harm me, etc. ]

...

this man,

is in

the FOIAs

and

Public Records

[PRRs]

pretty solid


and you will learn a lot

about YHF13' and the aftermath

reading his material...

reviewing the emails / texts / etc.-


The email threads of him,

I found to be very informative -

it filled in the "Swiss cheese" gap

because I went on a little June 30, 2014, hike with Alan Sinclair, Helena Montana Superintendent [13'] Fred and Deanna Thompson, Jim Roth and his lady, Holly Henderson Snyder Neill and Michael Kodas.

[Source: SM- JK- November 2013]


...and as Holly and Alan

whispered behind boulders -

I heard their hunt for the

YHF13'

Sesame to Shrine

areas

'fusee' topic.



I am ready to sit down

and

watch the

and

I felt it was worthy

to share

it to a few

back channel

first

[do not be bummed if I did not pick you first- get over it]

and

now

the

Public at Large:

[on the 3rd it had 11 views and 11-11-24 it had 42 views]

I like Alan Sinclair-

-charismatic professional yet relatable personable personality-

he has potential...

to do some

real

legacy

work

in this here

lifetime.



but I do

dislike

what grown men

have shared to me

how their engaging

with Sinclair ...that

he just vanished

based on Alan's doings...

just stopped interacting with some...


this man

who was once

so engaged

with others-

Alan Sinclair,

that is what they reported,

just became a ghost.


That is terrible...

sad really.

he is probably one of the best to put on a bon fire-

how could he just vanish...

So many men in fire love/care for him

[only want the best for him or miss him greatly they say]

???

follow the possible fire or smoke columns folks,

I say, if you wanna find him...soft giggles


totally kidding...

I said that because of some of the recent years'

Large Incident Fires...I felt they could have been handled much differently. Right?!



...My prayer is that people realize that this man even though he did ____'s EMDR, but I thought my records showed the Feds possibly paid for that EMDR...maybe he did it more than once ??? who knows...



and it is hard for many of us who know "_____" to see that then he became a board member to ___ ???


so, it is what it is...but many of us are confused-


I along with some

may possibly

still have

audio recording

of Alan Sinclair

to prove

why some of us

are bewildered...

I guess modern day networking, possibly???

or maybe ____

be nice to have more clarity on the topic though

he is still most likely healing---

it shows in this video...

but he has come so far

from my public record images

of him in July 2013.


Sir,

Grown men

who know/knew/known

you for a moment

or for decades

have

interacted with me /

come to me

about you...


they either miss

the times they had with you

or they feel abandoned by you and think wtf...

such as life, right?!...

I have stuck up for you

since I know more than I speak...


and you know

when

you just

"ghost"

some

after what they

have shared with you---

???


it does leave one

possibly

wondering

about

WHO YOU ARE

?????

[WHO HAVE YOU BECOME]

personally, and professionally-


that is the beauty about life-

we all error-


just go forward


and


keep becoming

the BEST you...


so, I know a lot about you

because of my research and records-


 

intermission time.

sorry Slash, I had to add that...I love the Sesame Street image

back channel, soft smiling...


 

is it because you learned these folks

interacted with me

for a split second?


Is that why you cut them out?

The ol' good ol boys/gals clique bs mentality...


Is it a possible Bea Day thing?

because I never met the woman

but it has come my way

in over 11 years

she has nothing ____ to say about me.

??? She never met me- for the record ???


Yet, I find her to be at times

inappropriately unprofessional

and disrespectful

to her fellow fire folks

who ended up sharing about YHF13'

so be neat to be a fly on her wall when she watches/watched your video.

Not neat if she owns a fly swatter though...

and I am that fly on that wall...

[side eye look, sigh]



To me,

you are a rock star...

even though

you have Wildland Fire leadership

under your belt ---


I think you have

the potential

to become

one of

the

most successful

private

Wildland Fire contractors

for the homeowners,

landowners

and insurance agents

as well as BIA and Government agencies

because you know the possible internal /external politics of the Wildland Fire in these advancing modern days---


however, keep in mind...

there are some very savvy folks

documenting the fire seasons

much different

then the past decades

and watch right now

what is possibly happening

to some of these

private Wildland contractor(s)

out there

being blamed for fires

they were not even involved with---

they were not even nearby-

[in the blink of an eye- their lives are now changed and in court room settings]

??? very not right and unfair.

You can possibly be one of those guys too...

realize that... it can happen...

to possibly any fire folk/contractor...

Be safe.

and congrats!


Always remember...

Different Levels means possibly different devils.


You all do not know what I own,

and I know when I type or speak, I can back it up-

the others who speak on me-

they more than likely wear masks...


I already know, YHF13'

and own more in records

than the folks who were there firsthand

and I know that

because the firsthand folks told me that

when sharing their testimony---


Now for you to think

possibly ignoring people

who care(d) for you

is the route to go...


probably not


but I know you are trying to go forward...

maybe apologizing

???

publicly and personally

would be a good start.

They really care(d) about you.

I know that if they brought you up to me.

These are folks across the USA.


Your name,

Bea Day,

Scott Hunt,

and Jeff Whitney

are the most discussed

when people come to me

in regard to Wildland Fire.


There are few more names

but those are names shown to

the wealthy elite who are watching-

not for the Public at Large...


I would think this was a smart move during the Pandemic phase and it's thereafter in the position you were in to build this private LLC-

Good job.

a great LIFE balance move...

gives you possibly

more control as a contractor

and people like me,

the researchers-

harder to get records from private entities...right?!

a win, win for the fire industry.

and great timing to create the LLC-

Congrats!

it shows here:

Ecosystem health, eh?

You do realize...

there are some very wealthy

powerful folks

watching me


as well they are watching these Large Fire Incidents


and who is claiming

what

environmental hashtag

to these fires,

but these folks

watch

the origin, the progression and its burn scars...


you watch,

some possible big moments are coming...

I think people in Congress - Senators and all-

that this man could really be successful and an asset for you all too, so I hope you all look at him not just for the USA but if he is licensed ...for International...

go Global...

 

My comment never made it:


YouTuber GradedPodcast:

Transcript

0:00

so today on greater podcast we're talking to Alan Sinclair who is a wildfire fighter part of the Eric Marsh

0:06

Foundation that deal dealed with natural disasters how are you Alan I'm good um

0:14

good to good to see you today Ben thank you so much for joining us and just to start us off how would you describe your

0:20

journey from when you were 16 years old to where you are now today and how did your your life influence the professions

0:25

you've gone into well boy when I was 16 years old I really had no idea what I was going to

0:31

do with myself um you know when I I graduated high school at 18 and uh found my career at 19 and it wasn't a career

0:40

that um I had um sought um I I had no idea that there was a difference between

0:46

structure firefighters and Wildland firefighters and I became a wildland firefighter and that became my

0:52

career you mentioned that you didn't know the difference between structured wild firefighters what is the actual

0:58

difference so here in the United States um you know it's a different career path we've got

1:05

Municipal firefighters structured firefighters that are you know working in in communities and in cities and then

1:12

we've got um Land Management agencies there's five Land Management agencies that employ a wildfire

1:19

Workforce um I worked for two of those in my career the United States forest service and then at the end of my career

1:25

the Bureau of Indian Affairs um but there's also the United States Park Service The Fish and Wild wild life

1:30

service the Bureau of Land Management and um all of those agencies have

1:35

responsibility to protect um you know our our our wild areas our our you know

1:41

Community lands and um you know part of that is responding to wildfires and so

1:47

it's it's a completely different uh track than you know doing structure fire

1:52

and and staying you know within municipalities and cities and responding to you know structure fires and and all

1:58

the things that you know the the professional uh firefighters do on the Wildland side we're

2:05

professional firefighters that spend a lot of times out in the woods and we are um trained specifically to respond to

2:12

our wildfires so you worked as a national type one Incident Commander can you

2:17

elaborate on what that actually means yeah so in the United States we've

2:23

got uh 167 type one teams um there are National Incident Management teams um to

2:30

become qualified it it it takes a long time it took me probably 25 years um you

2:36

know there's a a progression that we do when you when you start fighting Wildland fires um and and you move up

2:44

and you get a little bit more uh responsibility as you move up um you know from uh leading a squad on a crew

2:52

to Leading a crew maybe leading an engine maybe leading a group of engines to an assignment um being responsible

3:00

for an area of a fire you know a geographical area on a fire and all the

3:05

all the people um there to being operationally responsible for the fire to be in the instant Commander where

3:12

you're working with a team um to manage you know large incidents and and all the

3:18

complexities involved with that so you know I had the honor of serving as a type one Incident Commander for the last

3:25

three years of my career prior to that I was a type two um which is more of a region team um so it's uh you know it's

3:34

it for me it was it was a it was a huge honor to be able to serve in that

3:39

capacity so you they obviously been through a lot of fires and incidents there's one particular incident I'm

3:45

interested in which is the yannell hillfire and tomorrow is obviously its 10th anniversary one of the deadliest

3:51

firefighting disasters ever in the US if I'm not mistaken can you tell us a bit about your experience as a peer

3:57

supporter and the effect it had in your mental health yeah sure so um you know prior to

4:04

jarnell uh I had been working in within our region I I was a a part of a

4:11

regional peer support team um we actually responded nationally so when

4:16

when when we had tragedy fires we would send a group of people that would go and

4:21

talk to people we had some training so we would go and visit with people that had experienced the tragedy um maybe

4:28

witnessed something bad happening to people and really try to support them

4:35

you know when when they're struggling to make good decisions uh link them with uh

4:41

you know therapists uh you know professional people if if they needed to and and and by coming from the industry

4:48

by being a wildland firefighter by by understanding um you know what job they

4:54

do and and you know kind of what world they live in um you know a peer support

5:00

team is a a valuable tool to to use to you know start moving people in a

5:07

positive direction of dealing with tragedy um when the when the Yarnell hillfire

5:14

the June 30th uh 10 years ago in 2013 um that that day that morning I was

5:21

actually doing a peer support assignment um there was a a national forest uh in northern Arizona that had a couple

5:27

firefighters that were killed in an off duty accident and we were there with a

5:33

small peer support team talking to them about about their experience and you know trying to again move them forward

5:39

in a positive direction I was also going through my Incident Commander training at the time and I had just been uh the

5:46

trainee on the do safe fire so if you've uh seen the movie Only the brave they

5:52

save the big juniper tree in that movie and that happened they actually saved that tree on the do safe fire you know

5:58

about the week before for the jarnell hillfire um my my initial uh initially I

6:06

was going to go to jarnell and uh be The Incident Commander trainee um that changed when uh the complexity of that

6:12

incident uh increased um but when they lost contact with the crew um I was

6:19

asked to respond as a peer supporter and um you know that's how I ended up there

6:26

I mean I've done a lot of research on the yo hillfire and it seems extremely hectic how has it changed who you are

6:31

today as a person wow so you know my experience

6:38

there um you know I here I was living in this pure supporter World um you know

6:44

also operationally responding to fires also um you know training to become an Incident Commander so I I I was very

6:52

involved in Wildland I had training um to help people deal with

7:00

tragedy and here I was now um in the middle of this very big tragedy

7:07

involving people that I know and I wasn't prepared for that experience even

7:13

with the training that I had so for me the the experience there impacted me um

7:18

you know I was diagnosed with PTSD after and there's probably about an 9month

7:24

period um from June 30th of 2013 until the middle of March in 2014 where you

7:32

know the PTSD was real and you know I was dealing with the the impacts of that

7:38

and uh you know it's it's a it's a journey that you know at the end of it

7:44

you you can you can go different directions and you know I'm I'm

7:49

fortunate that I had support and was able to make good decisions and um you

7:55

know move on in my career and and become a type one I see I mean so for that was a that was a a big deal because I had

8:03

experienced this tragedy it it negatively impacted me but I was able to

8:08

course correct um take responsibility for my mental health and move forward in

8:14

a direction that allowed me to to you know operate at the top of my industry

8:19

is a type one I see you mentioned PTSD and how are you able to overcome this

8:24

pdsd or or work through it because I can imagine that hopefully a lot of people with PDS you will watch this and and get

8:30

a vague idea of how you can actually overcome that how how did you do it well I I had a lot of support um and

8:38

I was open to things people offered and if if it was coming from a good place I

8:44

was going to try it and you know here here I I was a guy spending a lot of time in the woods a lot of time um away

8:51

from home you know just on these you know big exciting fires I mean it's you

8:57

know these big fires there's a lot of adrenaline with that and you know that

9:02

that was my world I was just doing that and you know somebody approached me and

9:09

told me about yoga and how that might be um beneficial I tried it you know it it was it wasn't something that uh stuck

9:17

with me but I did try it at the time you know people talked about meditating I tried that I I tried the different

9:23

things that people offered and um Amanda Marsh so Eric Marsh's Widow um has

9:30

become a just a part of my family now she was uh the first person to offer me

9:37

EMDR therapy EMDR is eye movement disassociation and reattachment so it's

9:44

a it's a specific therapy that uh people use for people um like me and it was

9:51

beneficial and um Amanda started the Eric Marsh Foundation after after this

9:58

uh this fire um to support Wildland firefighters I I think I was the first

10:03

person that um she supported that's why I'm on the board of directors now because that support was very helpful to

10:12

getting me back on track and uh and and helping me move past it but it's a

10:18

process there's nothing fast about it um it's just each day making a making a decision to to move forward you know uh

10:27

from June 30th to you know know about March 15th to 14 I was struggling and

10:34

the the Fire season was right around the corner you know we were we were moving towards Fire season 2014 and I I had to

10:41

I had to make a decision was I gonna go and do the job that that i' I've been doing you know since I was a teenager

10:48

and and and Excel at it or uh was I gonna give it up because there's really

10:54

no room not to be at your your you know the peak of your performance when you're engage in these big fires and uh so for

11:01

me it was a you know it ended up in a good a good space like I I'm proud of

11:09

overcoming it and uh and moving moving ahead in my career and to and today are

11:15

you are you still working through it or or you pass that s now you know I think uh you know I'll

11:22

I'll always carry a piece of it with me um you know you know the the the sadness

11:27

pops up at weird times uh you know I've I've uh taught at a

11:32

local college for over 20 years I teach our basic Wildland course and you know the first courses after that you know

11:39

when students were asking questions about it there is times where I had to walk out of the room um where the

11:45

emotions would take over and I'd you know just have to excuse myself for a minute and then go back and re-engage

11:51

and you know that lasted for a few years you know it was just it was just I I knew it was going to happen it was kind

11:57

of expected and I knew how I was going to deal with it when I was you know in a public setting you know just excuse

12:05

myself step away compose myself and and you know get back to business so you

12:10

know I'm always going to carry pieces of it with me but I I believe what gets better over time is my ability to manage

12:18

um manage those feelings and uh you know really focus on on the good things in

12:26

life and and what actually affected you in those fires I mean what caused that that sadness from the

12:33

incident well um just the the my involvement in in you know that that

12:41

incident um I was part of the the recovery of the

12:47

firefighters and um that was a tough day and so from from

12:56

that experience um and and then dealing with the you know the impacts of having

13:04

that experience what I learned was that you know being a peer supporter and

13:09

being involved in fires and tragedies for a long time some of them that I felt

13:15

kind of distan from that weren't personal because I didn't know the people um they still impacted me um I I

13:22

worked on a a a ranger district uh for the forest service that had a a high use

13:29

Recreation Area we got a river and lakes and a lot of people coming out and there's a lot of a lot of car accidents

13:35

and drownings and all these things that I had experienced in my career that I

13:41

just kind of moved past without really considering it and when I went through

13:47

therapy um some of those things came up and I didn't realize that they were still bothering me because I just kind

13:53

of hid him away and never um uh never confronted them or never really thought

13:59

much about them but they were still there so I think you know I I I spent a lot of time kind of doing a personal

14:05

inventory um you know what I was carrying around with me how it was affecting me how it was affecting my

14:10

relationships uh you know the the way I I behaved I mean you know that all all

14:18

of that uh all your experiences um really mold who you are and and how how

14:25

you're moving through life and when you really take a look at them and um and

14:31

address them and you know figure out if you're um reacting in a way that that

14:38

you're proud of you know that that's uh where you start doing that work to you

14:44

know figure out how to take that baggage with you through life absolutely so we

14:50

obviously discussing uh pdsd how is your experience on pdsc shaped your perspective on on mental health and its

14:56

importance within the firefighting and emergency response Community wow you know

15:04

um it it made me realize that you

15:11

know the tragedy I was involved with that kind of daylighted all the issues I was having with all the other tragedies

15:17

was you know very public I mean you know every you're halfway around the world and you know about this fight right so

15:24

um I had a lot of support because of how um public it was but what what I

15:33

recognized was that people are dealing with tragedies every day that that um

15:39

what my experience was no more significant than than other people's experiences right I was fortunate to

15:45

have a bunch of support um so I'm hopeful that by by speaking right now

15:51

you know it it encourages people to seek support and and be better if they're

15:57

struggling right um which is our aim of course yeah within the industry I think it's important to have the conversation

16:04

and to talk about it so that's that's where where I got with it was that it

16:10

it's it shouldn't be something that we don't talk about it should be something that we talk about it shouldn't be seen

16:17

as a sign of weakness um it should be seen as a sign of strength when somebody

16:22

um engages those those issues and and and tries to you know tries to figure out

16:30

how to how to manage them yeah so I'm I'm going to go more back into when

16:35

you're actually working in those fires how are you able to handle the immense pressure and responsibility that comes

16:41

with leading complex and high-risk Emergency Operations I can imagine that must be quite quite

16:48

difficult it is but um we manage them using teams and so you know it's not

16:54

just one person you know I I have the title of Incident Commander but really

17:00

it's an incident management team so everybody working together um to uh you

17:07

know to to fix the problem but you know achieve the results that are re you know

17:13

requested um it's a group effort so I mean that team environment is very important it's it's you know you you you

17:20

learn to count on each other you lean on each other um teams those those high

17:26

functioning teams um work very well together and you know they're they're

17:32

they're picking each other up when when you know people are having are struggling and and moving forward

17:37

together as a as a as a unit so you know the type one team you know there's there's about 60 people on that team and

17:44

those are just the people managing the incident you know and providing the oversight that's not the firefighters

17:50

and and everybody else coming in that's just the incident management team so it's a big group of people um that that

17:56

work very closely together and and and and deal with some you know very

18:02

complex things and it's that that team environment that that makes it possible

18:08

yeah and you you're obviously constantly putting yourself at risk in these fires and almost trying to help people with by

18:15

being vulnerable and almost I mean how do you strike a balance between being a strong leader and acknowledging your own

18:21

vulnerabilities or limitations I mean how do you go about doing

18:26

that um wow that's a good question

18:32

um what I did in my personal experience was I I did a lot of soul searching you

18:39

know I was I was very I was um trying to understand me a little bit

18:45

better you know because I'm I'm sitting here interacting with a bunch of people and um I need I I I I had a desire to

18:54

really understand what they were seeing when when I was talking to them and um that's not

19:01

uh you know that that's not an easy thing to do um you know when you're taking a hard look at yourself all the

19:07

time but you know I think it's important to to take a good look at yourself um do

19:12

an inventory of you know your strengths and weaknesses and then try to try to

19:18

leverage the St strengths strengths and weaknesses of the people that you're working with um to to to blend it

19:25

together real well right so that you know the the team team strong and uh you know where I was not as strong as a

19:34

leader um you know I was I was dependent on the team to kind of fill that um and

19:41

and where I was strong as a leader I was trying to to leverage that and and and use those strengths to you know make

19:48

things easier for the team and and you you mentioned leadership what kind of leadership sty has actually worked in

19:54

trying to make a a job a success

20:00

um well you know there's there's a lot of different leadership styles out there

20:05

I mean uh you know I there there's tons of different books that you can read um

20:10

and and um you know try to try to figure out what's going to work for you for me

20:18

it was working with other leaders and picking up things I liked um noting

20:23

things that I I didn't appreciate that you know I would then try not to you

20:29

know not to um do those things with you know with

20:35

with the the folks I was working with on teams um

20:40

and making it about the team you know and and not about me as The Incident

20:47

Commander um I I tried to always ensure that the team understood how significant

20:55

the work that they were doing was you know just show them that appr appreciation and

21:00

[Music] um just do do my best to work with them

21:06

and uh and make it make it a team effort you know you hear there's no eye in team

21:12

and um you know that that's very relevant in this business it's it's actually a very

21:17

interesting comparison to have with the the wildfires and how you dealt with it and personal issues in society because

21:23

everyone faces their certain problems and goes through this sort of process can you share any specific incident

21:29

where you found unexpected obstacles or setbacks and how you actually dealt with this both professionally and

21:36

personally wow you know each of the each of the incidents um you know especially

21:42

the big complex incidents uh they they've got their own unique challenges

21:47

and um you know 20 20120 was you know one a

21:54

crazy year um with the pandemic um and you know the the polarizing politics in the United States

22:02

um that was that was a very interesting year to to be um engaged in in Wildland

22:08

fires you know we uh in the United States we're we're moving firefighters around the country um from state to

22:15

state as our fire season kind of kind of moves and um we had to figure out how to

22:20

do that during a pandemic and our team had the very first uh large incident um

22:27

in 2020 um during that pandemic so having

22:34

to set standards for firefighters on an incident when we you know were learning

22:40

a lot about the pandemic and and using those best practices that maybe not everybody had bought into um and and

22:47

having to to make a stand and and say this is the way we're moving you know

22:54

forward on this incident um which then kind of LED how you know incidents

22:59

followed through throughout That season um what people were going to require um of firefighters in fire camps as they

23:07

operating on the line you know trying to maintain some some distance between Crews and wearing masks and you know

23:15

making sure they're washing their hands all those little things I think um were challenging to um set into place but the

23:24

way we did it was by um constantly keeping up on new information coming out

23:31

and and and making decisions as a team and you know leading as a team um

23:38

together leading by example so you know the the team bought in to what we were doing and what we were asking the

23:45

firefighters to do so having that team as a united front to influence the

23:50

change needed to respond during a global pandemic um that that was uh that was a

23:58

a Challenge and and family and friends and significant others I mean surely they

24:03

take a strain when it comes to fighting and and doing all that sort of stuff what kind of steps do you take to navigate those those sort of

24:12

challenges wow you know uh when when I was engaged fully engaged in my career

24:18

before I retired I did not do a good job of uh you know doing that um because I

24:25

was gone and it was always an emergency and um you know it was like it was you

24:31

know last minute you got two hours got to have wheels turning towards wherever that next fire was and i' go away for a

24:38

couple weeks and come home but while I was gone life had gone on you know the the dog still needed to be fed the

24:44

garbage needed to go out the mail needed you know daily things still happen and then coming back and and trying to

24:51

reintegrate into that um didn't do a good job so um I think what I

24:58

would you know do over you know with with my family life if I could is is you

25:04

know being more engaged and and understanding that yeah I I had a big

25:09

responsibility to go do what I was choosing to go do um but that

25:16

responsibility um shouldn't overshadow the responsibility of being a good

25:22

family uh participant in my family being a good husband being a good father um

25:29

you know th those things I I I think I did a decent job but um definitely there

25:35

were impacts to you know to our family because I was gone so long you know i'

25:40

I'd be gone four to six months out of the Year fighting fires here we leave for two weeks you know you these these

25:46

fires go on for a long time and you know I leave Arizona go to Idaho go to Oregon

25:51

go to Washington go to California you know go go somewhere and be gone for an extended period of time and then come

25:56

back so um you know there's got to be a good life balance um with with accepting

26:05

a responsibility like that and um I think people just need to figure out what that is it's kind of hard to do

26:11

though when you're did did you did you find that at the end or or is was it still a struggling theme through um

26:16

throughout your your career um it I I think towards the end I

26:24

I did a better job um you know it it just uh I think during my career you know we we

26:31

had a definitive Fire season when I started and then throughout my career that changed where we started not

26:37

calling them fire Seasons we were calling them fire years and um we were responding um and and and firefighters

26:43

are still doing this they're responding all the time and um so they're not really getting that break um that we

26:51

used to get and people are going to have to figure that out you know I don't I don't know

26:56

what that means uh when when you're constantly responding um firefighters got to figure

27:03

out and managers people managing firefighters got to figure out you know when to when to slow it down and and

27:09

make sure people are getting yeah getting quality home time there's got to be a balance there so we've obviously

27:16

been discussing your your life story not your life story but how how you've gone through these fires and how you've dealt

27:21

with all your situations I'm going to switch a topic more towards the Eric Marsh Foundation itself can you tell us

27:27

a bit more about the what the Eric Mark Foundation is and what it actually tries to

27:32

achieve yeah so the Eric Marsh Foundation uh Amanda Marsh started the foundation after the Yarnell hillfire to

27:39

honor her her uh late husband Eric who was the superintendent of the Granite

27:45

Mountain Hot Shots um you know initially she was providing support and and they

27:51

still do they provide support to um families of firefighters who you lose a

27:56

wildland firefighter or have um you know wildland firefighter experience a you

28:02

know a significant injury tragedy um but they're they're now more focused on the

28:09

mental health support to Wildland firefighters which was a huge piece that

28:15

um has been missing um we're seeing a lot of suicide um within the wildland

28:21

firefighter Community um and we're dealing with tragedies

28:28

every year I mean you know Granite Mountain was a was a big big loss of

28:33

life but we Contin continue to have loss of life every year and um so what Amanda

28:41

and the Eric Marsh Foundation do now is they provide mental health support to

28:46

Wildland firefighters and and she provided me that support early on and

28:52

what I tell people when I talk about it was that no one would ever know that

28:58

Amanda Marsh and the Eric Marsh Foundation provided me mental health support um unless I said something

29:07

because she set it up I agreed to go do it and that was the

29:13

last we talked about it until years later when I thanked her and uh started

29:18

talking openly about it because I believe it's an important

29:24

conversation to have um it wasn't a ation I heard when I was a young

29:30

firefighter um so I'm hopeful that by speaking about it and by normalizing it

29:38

and by being an example of somebody that struggled and then um succeeded I

29:47

struggled and then excelled um there's hope you know there there

29:53

there is definitely um a way to navigate mental health

29:59

issues um so um I'm now on the board of directors um trying to help raise money

30:05

and and uh you know support Amanda and the and the foundation but you know

30:10

they're they're doing great work they've got a website you can check them out the Eric Marsh Foundation just Google them

30:16

and uh you can read all about the good stuff that they're doing but um absolutely uh am 100% behind them and in

30:25

their mission y you mentioned raising money and and from what I see here you've raised around

30:32

$95,000 which is which is truly exceptional and and the Eric Mar Foundation is obviously a wonderful

30:38

thing which tries to help young people who who are dealing with this stuff and firefighters um how can people help the

30:45

Eric Farm foundation where can they donate so on the website I I know that

30:50

you know they have uh you know t-shirts and and hats and and things that people

30:56

can purchase to support them um and I believe there's a way to make a donation there um they do fundraisers

31:03

here in in the states um to to raise money but yeah certainly you know if

31:09

anybody's interested in helping them out get on the website and there's information on there on you know if you

31:15

wanted to buy a you know one one of the Eric Marsh shirts or um they've got coins and hats and you all sorts of

31:21

stuff so definitely I'd uh have your listeners go check them out yeah definitely um um we've been discussing

31:29

PTSD and how how your jobs affected you how has your job had a positive impact on hero

31:36

today wow uh great question so um you know having been challenged you

31:43

know having having that challenging experience that impacted me that I had

31:49

to work through um leading at the level I did with the team that I I got to work

31:57

with teams and um and the in all those people that I interacted with um it it changed

32:07

me um I I believe I'm stronger I'm like I I leveled up at at some at some point

32:14

to where I don't think um without that type of an experience I would have ever

32:21

done all the self-reflecting that I had done or um or gain

32:28

the confidence that I gained from being able to go and Tackle these very complex

32:35

incidents with with a with a team so um on the back end I I think I'm aware

32:43

where maybe I might not have been aware of uh how things had been

32:49

impacting me or or affecting me you know when there when there's all these little

32:55

things that that happen over time um they're still part of your experience

33:00

it's still experience and baggage that you're carrying around so you know if

33:05

you you keep having little things happening you may be taking stuff along with you that's um influencing the way

33:14

you're behaving influencing the the the way you have

33:20

your relationships or you're treating your friends and family um so for me I I

33:25

had you know this sobering event that was like wow um I'm I'm impacted now and

33:33

I need to do some work and I need to I need to take a look at myself I think my career caused me to do

33:41

that and I don't know if I would have um done that if I hadn't been challenged

33:46

the way I was yeah so I think a lesson for me is it without that challenge it's

33:54

important to do a a self assessment occasionally you know you know I I think

34:01

it's important to look at yourself um you know look at look at the way you're interacting with folks um see if there's

34:08

any issues there and if there's issues try to figure out what might be causing them and and how you can move past them

34:15

so at the end of every interview we ask one question which is if you had to go back and say one thing to your 16-year-old self what would it be but

34:22

I'm going to split this question into two I'm going to say if you could go back and say wasn't your 16-year-old self what would it be and if you to say

34:28

give one piece of advice to yourself during a hard time or during when the PTSD was really really hitting hard what

34:35

what piece of advice would you give yourself wow so

34:44

um when when PTSD was really hard um I I

34:49

think now that I've gotten to where I'm at I would tell myself to have patience

34:57

and um and and know that that there's a light at the end of the tunnel yeah um

35:03

as far as my 16-year-old self I'd probably say uh you know strap on your seat belt it's going to be a hell of a

35:10

ride yeah well thank you so much I I really appreciate um you talking to me

35:15

your true inspiration to me and I hopefully a lot of teenagers can watch this and get the message regarding how

35:21

to overcome pdsd thank you hey you bet thank you Ben

English (auto-generated)

 

I am so glad

you possibly

softened

towards ________

because I recall

possibly some

of your 2014 views,

[recorded]

but maybe

you are the kind who appeases...who knows...

so, prayer answered there.


God is really working in your life...

I hope you can apologize

to others you "ghosted"

and they came to me

on the topic of your manners changing

because they in some odd ways

were one or two times in my space...

wow, do you get offended by people interacting with me?

Do you remember old Rex and Curtis over in the 'Stitions? They were extensions to my family...Rex ran the old antique store ages ago...


we sure did not understand possibly some of your burning tactics--- was that your decisions

or political?


To me,

it comes off as

if you just left the desert alone,

it burns itself out, eventually---


it is not like the forest...


...poor saguaros...



so, when fire folks lay fire down-

who/what really is the possible causal factor

to these invasive grasses...

???

most likely not the fire origin

but possibly the ones making them

into Large Perimeter Incidents

by their tactics

&

decision making...

right?!


perception ???

or reality???

or both?


I would wish one day you did a LLC for bon fires because some have told me how well you do them--

"mesmerizing"

is what I was told.

Remember Rock n Roll / ReMem'burn Rock LLC is a good name.

mine are small but colorful:

Praying for you

and

wishing you healings

for all of your areas to life.


Keep sharing about YHF13.


I really hope to learn more

about your day in Yarnell June 30, 2013...

from 4:13pm until July 1st, 2013, 6:45pm



 

related or misc. links or misc tidbits tossed here---random:


 

when it was first on: [metadata search]

---this should teach folks

what you do online

may possibly

have a blueprint

forever...

here is the archived Alan Sinclair's Presentation on Yarnell: John Maclean: YARNELL

My takeaways

from all their delving

on the YHF13' topic publicly:

  •  "a neighbor in Seeley Lake, Montana, called me repeatedly on the afternoon of June 30, the day of the fatalities, as his wife tried to get her 90-year-old mother to evacuate her home in Yarnell, Arizona." [ this was never told to me on our hike- just online data John wrote about]

  • " A few days later I was contacted by Holly Neill, a former wildland firefighter, whose early interest in the fire has turned into a full-time commitment -- she's also a founding member of Safety Matters: A Wildland Firefighter Forum for Change, a group of fire veterans advocating for wildland firefighter safety. She suggested we collaborate, and I agreed." [ - Little insert since he can project shit to the Public about me---can you take what you dish out--- how about you, reverse what you projected back on to yourself---what you said on me---how about you...--- I own my past actions---was it all about YHF13 what happened there between you and Holly? See how dumb it sounds...especially coming from a fella who you google has a net worth of appx over 31 million...come on...still waiting for the content you gathered on the fire I almost died on...where is it...what happened?]

  •  "Many people have contacted me through this website and asked whether I'm doing a book on the fire: the answer is yes..." [where is it--- it has been:11 years, 4 months, 3 days, 16 hours, 59 minutes,... since the event...-where is your book?]

  • "...hundreds of contacts and interviews: - [ good to know---do you see this Higher Authorities / Powerful Elites... he owns hundreds...reach out to him to see what he documented]

  • "Karels told us the SAIR was complete, would not be amended, and it was up to "people like you" to carry on." .... " Investigators from the second team, contracted by the Arizona Division of Occupational Safety and Health (ADOSH) [pdf], also said they would not reopen nor amend their report to reflect new information." [Higher Authorities / Powerful Elites: you see that right--19 losses and no amendments?]

  •  "The abiding question of the fire is: Why did 19 hotshots leave a relatively safe position in a burned-over area on a ridgeline and hike down into a box canyon in the path of a wind-driven wildfire, in a time of extreme drought, at the height of the fire season, at the worst fire-danger time of day?" [Especially when seasoned experience first-hand firefighters told them at no time would the Boulder Springs be considered the safety zone on June 30, 2013...so one must really focus if Alan Sinclair or Bea Day can share MORE of their exact location between 4:18pm and 5pm, June 30, 2013, and what they experienced and saw...you want to share then keep going and share on this area...]

  • One report, by Alan Sinclair, is his clarification of a PowerPoint presentation he gave at a meeting of the Central Arizona Wildland Response Team (CAWRT) in March 2016 in Phoenix. Sinclair is a Type 2 Incident Commander. Three years to the month after the Yarnell Hill Fire, another fire, the Tenderfoot Fire, ignited in Yarnell, and Sinclair became the incident commander. [Home - Central Arizona Wildland Response Team] John Maclean: YARNELL

  • https://web.archive.org/web/20160624075141/http://johnmacleanbooks.com/yarnell/sinclair.shtml

  • Alan Sinclair: "The cut stobs illustrated in the PowerPoint presentation are suggestive evidence that Granite Mountain may have cut a P or personnel line. Stobs are broken branches or stumps, whether cut by chainsaw or otherwise. The cut stobs were found during four trips to the site between March 2014 and June 2015. I found a cut stob on June 29, 2014 while hiking with Holly Neill, who told me about the cut stob found in March of that year. It is my professional opinion that the stobs were chainsaw cut. Can I say for certain who cut them or when they were cut? No, but I do believe they should be closely examined. I was told by a former Granite Mountain crewmember that it would have been common practice for them to put in a P line. The Helms' ranch was identified as a "bomb proof" safety zone, and the route GMIHC was traveling was designated as an escape route by Marsh in several conversations. I believe that the cut stobs strongly suggest that they did put in a P line. They were found between the fatality site and the Helms' ranch.



    I believe this is significant. Can I say that the Granite Mountain Hotshots cut the stobs? No, not conclusively. I do, however, believe that the possibility should be considered. In the ADOSH report the escape route to the Boulder Springs Ranch was noted in the section discussing errors made by the crew. It states that this escape route "had not been scouted, timed, marked or improved." This is a charge against the crew. The cut stobs suggest that charge may be unwarranted.



    What does it matter?"

Wow, DH...there is that CAWRT name again---interesting

let me counter on photo below because Leonard, Brent and a few others said that area had some possible clearing appx. 2 weeks before YHF13 so this photo would not be solid confirmation as well as people who were near Pat Bernard's said they saw many fire folks in this stob area that Holly mentions on a hike to me---I have that testimony and images of what fire entities awaiting them to SPEAK UP--- maybe you wanna chime in Alan--you wanna name them ---

If you were there right after the fatalities,

then tell me about this area in image below---


I am the

desert walker

and

YHF13' eyewitness

who was there Saturday late day

and Sunday morning

right there in that area ---

where rocks/boulders

were possibly moved

or bushes obviously sliced by a saw---

I fell on one hurting my ribs/lungs up on the ridge area...

so can answer who did that because that was not touched Saturday or Sunday morning???


I would like to know that answer because Alan- something was placed into safekeeping with YCSO and the GPS coordinates are in this area naming two FFs names with the word possible ---so what gives...can you help on this topic...

who is this guy

Alan

in photo below...

while we got beers and bibles

to the locals

this guy popped on us

and Joanna Dodder Nellans

has never since

identified

who he is

to us---

she behaved like she knows who he is---

he had something important to share---

but we were busy getting

cigs and beers

to the locals

and new Bibles

who lost everything

in the YHF13'.

They gave food to people in need

but after seeing what took place

some beer and cigs

helped them much better...

I never drank much [social moments]

or smoke [never]

so I listened to the locals needs...

that says something

that I give a shit for the locals...

meanwhile, in your community I see large Incident fires under your belt???

WTH.

Right?!

Care to share?

Are we labelling fires remedial care nowadays?


who is this man:

I was trying to find what posts your name was in my posts---this came back:

 

Do you know

HOW

unbiased

I am ...

???

the one who called the cops on me to leave the biz...

I can state,

not just calling out

naturally in Scrabble tiles,

I picked these:

but here I can say

hands down

BURK MINOR

is truly there

for the

boots on the ground.


I think he gets it---

I forgot he takes that serious and the boot fitting stuff...

Okay, he gets it...not just "think" he gets it...

I pray he sold the boot biz or gave it to a family member...so he can lighten up more...soft giggles.


wasn't it funny

I got the Scrabble tiles

HERO BM W

and I turned it into an eight-letter word

HOMEBREW ;)

- no shit, really, see:

soft giggling.


that to me is funny---I do not care who you are...

hey Gary ...you like that--yoda talk is back...


These men below are for TRUTH:

thank you, God, for the moments I was able to interact with them all...

AMEN!


The above men

have gone out

to the Public at Large

FULL NAME

and have been doing the difficult right thing...

RiP Moses-

also, I applaud firsthand folks who gave me their testimonies, some GMHS Alumni, GMHS family members, all at Investigative MEDIA too

and Burk Minor.


None of these men interact with me

like others rumor mill it

so, stop blocking the natural flow of life with lies/omissions/orchestration/manipulation...

You think you are so dangerously savvy

but you d___...they know who they are...

I am allowed to my humble opinions of how I see the YHF13 and its aftermath...

so if I want to mention someone I will...

get over it.


This man

[BURK MINOR]

is

one hundred percent

for the

boots on the ground

and if you care about your fellow fire person then you reach out to

BURK MINOR

and say

how can I help you, Burk Minor...

I only bailed because I have to have zero ties to slurry folks---seen some horrific deaths and no Air and Soil agencies will touch it but that fire deserved a case study---


...if we never talk again...

and I knew you for a second...

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO FOR THE WORLD WE LIVE IN, BURK MINOR...

you just had people in your ears was all-


I refuse

to fully support

Alan

and his biz

until I know he did

the difficult right thing

and told the

Public at Large

that he shares all he knows

about the YHF13'

not just what he wants us to know...

and the focus on topics

like "Mental Health"

because the way to really heal

is get it all out---


 

My misc. and fun facts for the day:

BEWARE OF BLACK WIDOWS but TARANTULAS are fine:

God is Good- "shout out to the Caliente NV Mormons who supplied us some needs on the trails...

wait...same day he was a genius about an enclosed temporary bathroom spot due to incoming weather...the snow was soooo much we could not even open the door to get in there ;) It was the thought that counts.


It was a true honor to learn Tex's old trails and where he mined---thank you Tex