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Is the "Old School" vs. the "New School" Lessons Learned Transition Necessary?


2023-9-30 | Arizona Desert Walker Joy A. Collura primary author and Fred J. Schoeffler as contributing other(s) and editor.


Views expressed to "the public at large” and "of public concern"


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So then, brothers, stand firm, and hold the traditions which you were taught by us, whether by word, or by letter. 2 Thessalonians 2:15



Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8



“THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing [sic] its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.”


This was written by Thomas Paine during the dark days of the Revolutionary War in 1776. He was an English-born American political activist, philosopher, political theorist, and revolutionary; one of the Founding Fathers of the United States.


Source: goodreads - Thomas Paine, The Crisis (December 23, 1776)




I am old school. I have a very deep tie to history and how the hunter/farmer/miner/logger/cowboy/ranchers/fisherman seem to be now a thing of the past... historical in it own right as a new breed has arrived and I must admit this is also extending into the fire industry.

The roles of history should not be erased as I saw in my upbringing in public History books as we were taught...they fed me in books what they wanted me to know, and I learned most I know from the old time "real" folks and the indigenous ones too. Are the roles lost in the fog or gone forever I ponder nowadays?


What is it to be a firefighter today? I know, I know...First, I have to define is it wildland or structural or both, eh or is it CAL Fire or ??...I know...I am sure they all have different ideas, yet I hope transparency and safety are always at their forefront for true lessons to be learned. I know some feel it's body strength and others measure it with analytic views or some it is the passion of knowing they are a firefighter and for some they lay hidden the drive is the money and usually that is not the grunt fella...but I do find it interesting when you look at 2013 payroll to today's....


However, what is often overlooked is --- are we living up to the plan God made for us...Jeremiah 29:11...then really, we are more alike than different because we all were made in His likeness. We are meant to serve another and what good is it if it has any taste of distrust and deceit...I would like to see the Quisling Dean Whitney step forward and be pure about that moment he was helping FJS then what?


And I also would like to see the Quisling Dave Provencio and Jay Kurth to step up and speak veracity as well as Paul Morin and Steinbrink and Willis and the list goes on. Just looking at public records/testimonies and that is just my humble opinion.

Prayer is a powerful resource and I hear Y O U sharing to me lately on YHF and other fires and we are seemingly facing Spiritual Warfare and I continue to ask Our Loving Heavenly Father to use His Plentiful Power and Authority to take Y O U R sharing and place it for the world for what you said to me matters and the world needs a deeper understanding not just the fire industry on the current system of fighting fires but us common civilians as well we need to have situational awareness.

So please today pray this with me "I assert the protection of the cummerbund of all T R U T H S pertaining to not just the YH Fire but all fires. Specifically, prayer to precise hours from 10:45am through 4:45pm June 30, 2013, that all that know "any" information on YH Fire are brought to the forefront publicly. Hold firm His Word against the ones who speak with deceitful tongues and place out a belief to you that is untrue, and may God protect the world of the stronghold attitudes that tie into such behavior(s).


God made us to be unique, but He did not make us to use our tongues to place out to the world deceit. You ever meet a person and you like having them around you- just something about their presence is just so cool but there is something off and you then wish they would just let go and let God...or you feel it is not your problem and they have areas they need to work on...it is not you but them...Tex and I probably perfected that in our six year pioneering moment. We both viewed another in such a way and yet I cannot help to reflect back to YH Fire and this web page to place out the data is not to lay blame or accusations yet to push T R U T H to the forefront by presenting documents and information. Why would those suppress that, or shadow ban it?


That is clearly a red flag, folks.

Those folks unwilling to SPEAK UP have created an incorrect thinking pattern that cores to make people just accept what Authorities placed out on the YH Fire and I as the eyewitness will not accept that behavior.


Some even like to use "it's in the past, Joy...Jesus says do not look into the past.." I say to that if it is in the past and it keeps continuing then you are not being true to self and others and Him so free yourself by ridding of the layers so my prayer here today is to break those strongholds that wear you down from sharing the T R U E moments to June 30, 2013 and stop telling me and others you were told only to talk to the PIO Investigator.


So, pray today again that more T R U T H is brought to the forefront to dispel the falsehoods already out there."

God's justice—his plan for "setting things right”—is a foundational principle of the Bible. His plan for justice to triumph is traced from Genesis through Revelation, and as a theme it forms the backbone of Scripture.

The "ABOVE THE LAW" mentality that in my search for a legal definition on EXEMPT from the law...maybe someone reading has legal backing and will message me on it...so mention the topic of WHO is Govt official in Arizona?

small town municipal fire chief? Is he above the law?

Public officials should be responsible for what they do, just like everyone else. There should be consequences for their unethical and illegal actions, including hiding the truth and lying by omission.

The people who enforce the law should never be allowed to be above it.

Question whether compliance with a legal or professional obligation would be harmful, unjust, or otherwise wrong. Absolute compliance connotes a "just following orders" mentality all too ready to sacrifice personal values and client welfare to an imperfect system of rules and regulations. Selective noncompliance connotes an association of people who have anointed themselves as somehow above the law, able to pick and choose which legal obligations and recognized standards they will obey. "When Laws and Values Conflict: A Dilemma for Psychologists" Ken Pope American (Psychologist, Vol. 43, No. 10, October, 1988, p. 828.)

Are the aims toward which our laws and formal ethical standards strive ultimately supported or subverted when public officials intentionally violate explicit legal and ethical standards that conflict with the professions' deeply held values?


How can public officials who believe that the authority of the legal and ethical codes are not absolute ensure that their actions are based on sound professional judgment rather than on self-interest, prejudice, Groupthink, rationalization, and the sense that one is "above the law"?


Are the integrity, effectiveness, and fairness of our mechanisms of accountability -- ethics committees--enriched or eroded when those who sit in judgment on the behavior of others have themselves intentionally broken the rules that they are seeking to enforce? Such dilemmas are in need of open acknowledgment and serious study. (Pope)

The law should be the same for everyone, so that no one is above the law, and everyone has access to the law’s protection.

Public Officials are and often need to be treated differently in law than the ordinary citizen: they need certain extra powers and they need to be hemmed in by extra restrictions, so that they can be held accountable for the actions they perform in the name of the community. (The Rule of Law - Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy - June 22, 2016

Now consider the "Old School" method of training and actions versus the "New School" Method.

"Regarding corrective action, you may have no other choice, so be prepared when the time comes, thinking ahead to what you want accomplished and how and countermanding those actions that were ordered before your arrival (basically changing the scope of the operation, if warranted). For many officers, this is tough to do, but it’s your job as an officer. Those collar pins on your uniform, whether they are bars, horns, or eagles, stand for two things: conflict and controversy. If you are not prepared to deal with those issues and take action that no one else will take, whether on or off the fireground, you will be a poor officer and get run over by your subordinates, often at the most inappropriate time—when it can cost their lives."

"Unfortunately, the biggest theory testers are often company officers who arrive first (the initial incident commanders) and operate without looking at the big picture, often getting themselves and their crews into more danger than they bargained for. It is then up to those arriving thereafter to hopefully restore some sanity to the operation and rein in nonthinking, overaggressive personnel before they get in over their heads."

Firefighter Casualties: When "Old-School Firefighting" Doesn't Work. 03/01/2010. Anthony Avillo.

" ... the dialogue is interesting in the points it makes about how training is being created to not be dangerous. The outcome is firefighters who might not fully appreciate how dangerous our jobs can be." Fire Service Culture: New School vs. Old School Firefighting and Simulators. The Fire Critic. An Unadulterated View of the Fire Service. Rhett Fleitz. February 11, 2010.

Study shows health, reaction-time declines in firefighters By Keith Ridler, Associated Press BOISE, Idaho — Sep 2, 2018, 6:51 AM ET

Randy Brooks' son had a request three years ago: What could his dad do to make wildland firefighting safer?

To Brooks, a professor at the University of Idaho's College of Natural Resources who deals with wildland firefighting, it was more of a command.

His son, Bo Brooks, is a wildland firefighter who a few days earlier during that 2015 fire season fled a wall of flames that killed three of his fellow firefighters in eastern Washington. [ Twisp River Fire Entrapments and Fatalities - Incident Date: 8/19/2015; Washington; 08/19/2015; Entrapment ]

The result of the conversation was an online survey that drew some 400 firefighters who mostly identified mental and physical fatigue as the primary cause of injuries to firefighters who are often confronted with a changing, dangerous environment.

But a self-selecting online survey is not necessarily representative of what's happening in the field. So Randy Brooks decided to apply some science.

That led to an ongoing health-monitoring study involving wrist-worn motion monitors and body composition measurements that last year found health declines and deteriorating reaction times among firefighters as the season progressed.

"A lot of them face peer pressure to perform all the time," Brooks said. "Others feel pressured to protect natural resources and structures at all costs."

About 19,000 firefighters are currently in the field fighting nearly 40 large wildfires. Fourteen firefighters have died this year as wildfires have scorched about 3,500 square miles (9,000 square kilometers) and destroyed about 3,000 homes.

The study last year found firefighters lost muscle mass but gained fat based on body-composition testing before and after the season.

The firefighters also wore a wrist device called a Readiband from a company called Fatigue Science. The device keeps track of how many hours of sleep a person gets. Formulas developed by the U.S. military then calculate fatigue, based on a lack of sleep. That's used to predict alertness and reaction times, which get worse as fatigue levels rise.

Firefighters in the field can get as little as six hours of sleep or less each night. The devices found that not only did reaction times falter as firefighters remained longer on a fire before getting a mandatory break, Brooks said, but firefighters also tended to take longer to recover as the season progressed. Sometimes, fatigue levels reached a level that suggested reaction times slowed down so much it took firefighters twice as long to react.

Brooks said his initial thoughts are that wildland firefighters might need better nutrition to stay fit and mentally sharp. But last year's study had only nine firefighters. Brooks this year has expanded the study to 18 firefighters, 16 men and two women. They're smokejumpers, meaning they parachute from airplanes to fight fires.

Brooks said that next year he hopes to have about 100 firefighters and include hotshot crews, a ground-based wildland firefighter that can, like smokejumpers, be deployed on a national basis.

Smokejumpers in the study often eat pre-made meals. Brooks wants to find out if maybe those meals are behind some of the puzzling results from last year's study, such as a loss in muscle mass.

Hotshots, meanwhile, can return to a central spot where they get prepared food supplied by the U.S. Forest Service. That agency has done extensive research on what it takes to keep wildland firefighters fueled, and contractors who supply the meals must meet Forest Service nutritional guidelines.

Forest Service health experts have even followed firefighting crews to take blood samples to check glucose levels, which can indicate alertness.

Joe Domitrovich, an exercise physiologist with the Forest Service's National Technology and Development Program in Missoula, Montana, said that experiment led the agency to change gears and recommend firefighters snack during their shifts to keep glucose levels up.

"It's critical for cognitive function as well as physical movement," he said.

The agency declined to comment on the University of Idaho study.

Brooks said at this point in his study there are more questions than answers. For example, one question is why so many firefighter deaths are due to falling branches or trees. The deaths of three of the 14 firefighters who died last year were due to what are called hazard trees. At least one firefighter was killed by a falling tree this year, and several more have been injured.

"What I'm trying to figure out is what is causing these accidents," Brooks said.

A fair number of wildland firefighters also die of heart attacks during the season. Brooks said he wants to know if there's something about the demanding seasonal job that puts wildland firefighters at greater risk of heart attacks.


Brooks wonders about the smoke firefighters inhale while doing physically demanding work. Many cities in the Pacific Northwest this year issued health alerts due to smoky air.

Ultimately, firefighters themselves might be part of the problem when it comes to calculating risks while protecting natural resources and property.

"There's a little bit of a hero culture," said John Freemuth, a Boise State University environmental policy professor and public lands expert. "There is a bonding with everybody. It can create a culture of where you kind of collectively ignore things you shouldn't ignore."

A case study of decision making in emergencies. Ash, John; Smallman, Clive. Risk Management; Basingstoke Vol. 12, Iss. 3, (Jul 2010): 185-207.

Figure 1. Tim Robert Fletcher Source: our "Prescott Angel (BGS)"

48 year old Tim Robert Fletcher who was once injured in the line of duty and was taking assistance from the 100 Club was now faced on the aftermath of the YH Fire to help others in need...A little over one year later after almost a 20 year career in law enforcement he retired from the Department. Once dealing with the Liaison Officer (LOFR) task book was now facing retirement to this town...I truly thank this man for his service all those years and the wounds he faced physically long ago could never be compared to the mental and psychologically of losing these fine 19 men and it shows above as our "Prescott Angel (BGS)" captured and shared the photograph and this man's somberness look.

Figure 2. 2014 Memorial Source: our "Prescott Angel (BGS)"

Figure 3. Wednesday, ‎July ‎03, ‎2013, ‏‎12:55:50 PM Downtown Prescott by Whiskey Row/Courthouse Source: our "Prescott Angel (BGS)"

Figure 4. photo metadata Source: our "Prescott Angel (BGS)"


You do not need permission from someone to take their picture if they are in public view. I interviewed the person who took Figure 1, 2 photographs on September 29th, 2018 2pm-3pm and when I asked why was he even there in Yarnell when most people were not even allowed there, he replied he was drawn to do this after the YH Fire. He was in areas most with even our "green tags" were not allowed in town and in Prescott. He lives in Prescott.

Wednesday, ‎July ‎03, ‎2013, ‏‎12:55:50 PM 48y.o. Eric "Conrad" Jackson, Prescott Firefighter as most men were engaged this man was obviously in a solemn state and rightly so for two of the Granite Mountain Hotshots (GMHS)(Ashcraft/Turbyfill) had taken his Fire Science class at Prescott High School and he really looked at most these young men as if they were his own kids it was said online.

Figure 4a. 2014 Memorial Source: our "Prescott Angel (BGS)"


I am placing this public ... it is a "draft" post --- this is where Prescott related areas will be placed as I go through my records in 2024.


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